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Projects => Power supplies => Topic started by: Maarten Stevens on April 13, 2012, 05:18:55 PM

Title: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 13, 2012, 05:18:55 PM
Peranders... I seem to have a problem with my SST03.

K1 activates, K2 doesn't. Voltage across D4 = 0V (so that's where the problem is).
Q3 base voltage = 40mv (relative to gnd)
Q3 emitter = 25V
Q3 source = gnd

Can you confirm the correct Q3 base voltage?
thanks!
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 13, 2012, 09:47:31 PM
Voltage over R10?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 08:37:57 AM
Voltage across R10 is 31.1VDC
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 10:02:32 AM
Good.

Q1, base down to ground? Voltage.

Q1, emitter down to ground? Voltage.

Q2, base down to ground? Voltage.

Q2, emitter down to ground? Voltage.
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 10:53:23 AM
Q1 base to gnd = 24.2V
Q1 emitter to gnd = 24.4V
Q2 base to gnd = 25 mV
Q2 emitter to gnd = 24.9 V
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 11:46:54 AM
Q2 is broken I should think. Which type of transistor do you use? BC???
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 11:49:36 AM
bc547c...

I have actually replaced Q2 already before, but this didnt fix it.... I will try another one.
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 11:56:37 AM
You could test the transistor with a diode test. Plus on bas and then check the base-colletor and base-emitter.

D4 is turned right?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 12:00:09 PM
Just put in another bc547 as Q2... no success.

Q4 is correct position...

Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 12:09:35 PM
I also switched the 2 ralays to the K1 and K2 positions... seems that both relays are still functioning.
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 12:14:24 PM
I don't really understand... K2 has 25V on pin 1 and pin 8... shouldn't it activate then?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 12:38:48 PM
Is Q3 base at 0 V and also the collector?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 01:00:19 PM
Q3 base is 60 mV, Q3 emitter is 0V
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 01:22:06 PM
And the Q3 collector 24 volts or so?

Are your really sure that you have BC5_47, not 57?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 01:28:14 PM
Yes and yes...

I have tested the board with and without transformer to it (transformer without load)
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 02:27:24 PM
R12, R13 values?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
R12 = 22K
R13 = 2.2K
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 04:44:17 PM
D4 is really OK and turned right?

As you see you have some problem around Q1 and Q2.

You should have 0.6-0.65 V base-emitter Q1.

Du you still have 24 volts at R12 and 0 V at R13? You should have 2 x 0.65 V.
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 06:31:56 PM
I am looking at the traces on the board... they don't seem to correspond to the BC547 datasheet..... (e.g. Q1 emitter)..

I know that's very unlikely as the board has been tested and used..so maybe I am going crazy here...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.datasheetcatalog.org%2Fdatasheet%2Fphilips%2FBC546_547_3.pdf&ei=b6aJT7uEItL58QOEsbjdCQ&usg=AFQjCNG0b4yJnAnVzq1AWxZKbR5tV9Al2w&sig2=JVaa6wmgXJQIBaOrwzF_7Q
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 06:43:24 PM
Pins down flat side to you from left, C B E
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 07:06:30 PM
Seems opposite from datasheet, no?  :?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 07:10:51 PM
Check if it's top view or bottom view.
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 07:22:18 PM
I another datasheet it was more clear... it seems right on that one indeed. I have in the meantime taken a whole new pack of bc547c's and put them in. Still the same problem.

Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 07:28:41 PM
Quote from: peranders on April 14, 2012, 04:44:17 PM
D4 is really OK and turned right?

As you see you have some problem around Q1 and Q2.

You should have 0.6-0.65 V base-emitter Q1.

Du you still have 24 volts at R12 and 0 V at R13? You should have 2 x 0.65 V.

D4 is put in according to the silkscreen. Have used a second one to verify... still same problem.

Q1 base - emitter = 0.4V and (thermally) drifting downwards

Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 07:39:15 PM
Is the Q1 emitter at 24 V?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 09:12:37 PM
Q1 emitter = 0V (compared to gnd)... actually 40mv (0.04V)
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 09:33:43 PM
And Q1 base 24 volts?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 09:36:41 PM
Q1 base = -0.5V vs gnd
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 14, 2012, 09:42:32 PM
Notice that you can't have less than zero. Check in the schematics for the electronics ground. Are you using a separate power supply or do use the mains voltage?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 14, 2012, 10:02:25 PM
I double checked and confirm my earlier readings. I am taking gnd at DZ1.
Using direct mains input
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 15, 2012, 07:11:32 AM
I'l loosing track here. Can you measure once again please.

R10 and all transistors.
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 16, 2012, 07:14:55 PM
I will post the schematic with all the voltages later... this should help I hope to identify the problem...
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 16, 2012, 10:09:38 PM
Hi Peranders.
I have written down all voltages, and identified the fault. Voltage between D2 and D3 was 32V (good), voltage between D3 and Q1 was -0.4V. Hence I guessed there was something wrong with the caps. So I removed C4 and C5 and it worked.

Unfortunately, I am not sure if I am where I want to be.... I get a blown fuse now upon startup with transformer and PSU....  :?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 17, 2012, 06:25:11 AM
Do you get a delay now? Have you replaced the caps which must be made of polyester?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 17, 2012, 08:10:51 AM
I think it is delayed (I hear c-click I think). The caps I had in were 1uF 63V WIMA....
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 17, 2012, 07:39:22 PM
Quote from: Maarten Stevens on April 16, 2012, 10:09:38 PM
I get a blown fuse now upon startup with transformer and PSU....  :?
What kind of fuse, rating? Fast, slow?
Transformer size?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 17, 2012, 11:24:13 PM
Hei Per Anders,
I was using a 1.25 slowblow, which blew all the time. I have now replaced for a 2A and it works now. The transformer is 400VA.

I am still running without C4 and C5 positions filled, what is the impact of that? How can I insert a suitable cap here?

Also I see sometimes a little spark around the relays... this doesnt seem to affect it though, as no fuse is blown, and the psu starts up normally. What can this be?

Thanks,
Maarten
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 18, 2012, 06:20:27 AM
The 1 uF caps are there for creating a delay - a soft start.
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 18, 2012, 02:13:01 PM
I have replaced with another 1uF 63V WIMA... then K2 doesn't activate again!

So: it only works with C4 and C5 empty, but I do see a spark then inside K2 relay (and of course there is no softstart then...)
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 20, 2012, 09:35:57 AM
what is the required rating of the caps in C4 and C5?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 20, 2012, 08:51:04 PM
63 V, polyester is enough. I must say you have a mysterious error.
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: Maarten Stevens on April 25, 2012, 03:33:12 PM
I haven now also tried a 250V MKT in that position... still doesnt work. As the designer of the circuit... what could be the culprit?
Title: Re: SST03 troubleshooting
Post by: peranders on April 27, 2012, 06:54:01 AM
When the cap is inserted how many volts across it do you get? When you test this do you have a 24 volts power supply or do you use the mains voltage?